Podcast MDM Academy Conference

EP 171 Vision Panel: Mothers of Creation Speakers

Have you ever had someone you love decide to walk out of your life? 

Cadie did. Someone very close to her decided a few years back that they didn't want to be in her life any longer, and there's been no contact since.

While Cadie was sharing with us her pain and struggle over this loss, we all had a profound realization:

Even though she has no contact with this person, Cadie still has a relationship with them! 

Resources from the Episode:

AI-GENERATED TRANSCRIPT

Episode 171: Vision, A Panel Discussion

Introduction

AUDREY: Welcome back to the podcast. I'm Audrey Rindlisbacher, author of The Mission Driven Life and founder of The Mission Driven Mom. So happy to have you back with us again today. We have our beautiful panel of upcoming speakers for our Mothers of Creation event this fall. We've got Tracie Hyde, Lindsey Wright, and Cadie Hatch with me. Today we're going to talk about the final key theme of this event, and of this whole process of moving from our problem stories and the places where we feel immensely stuck to really moving forward, having some serious success, and making things different on a long-term basis.

AUDREY: We've talked about the victim types, and how understanding them creates a spark and turns us on to the fact that we are being a victim and we need to be different. We've talked about how creator orientation gives us new hope. Cadie talked about how it makes us feel liberated, and Lindsey talked about how it helps her feel relief, like a new beginning, turning toward others, all of these beautiful things. But then how do we maintain it? We get that we're acting like a victim, and that we could be a creator instead, and we want to be that. Vision is at the heart of how we stay there. It's how we get to the end result. So let's start by putting some words around what we mean when we say vision. How would you describe that?

What Do We Mean by Vision?

TRACIE: Vision is something we hold in our mind that we have done the work to spiritually create before we bring it into the world. It's something we have in the forefront of our mind. In victim mode, we're reacting to problems, and the problems pop up like whack-a-mole and we're just whacking them down. But with vision, we actually have something we carefully and intentionally created in our mind that we are walking toward, working toward.

AUDREY: That's a beautiful description. Any other thoughts or descriptions around that? We've talked in previous podcasts about how sometimes our expectations and our ideals can get us into trouble. So what's the difference between an expectation and this idea of vision?

Vision Versus Expectation

LINDSEY: The culture can say, just envision it. If you want a million dollars and an island in the Bahamas, just imagine it and then it will happen. That's not what we mean. For me, vision is based in reality, meaning it isn't unrealistic. It's based on principles. It's something that, like Tracie said, we've spiritually created. This thing we're holding in the mind, this way we want to show up in the world. But it's realistic.

AUDREY: I would add one other little caveat, and I think it's what you're getting at, Lindsey. It's within the realm of our control. One of the things that really trips me up in the expectation realm is two things. One, I have to remind myself that if my expectations are higher than God's, then I'm in the realm of the impossible and the ridiculous. But also that I can't have expectations for other people. I can only have expectations around my responses and my creations. Those are the things I can hold and that I can control. So that would be part of how I would flesh out what we mean by vision. Cadie, you were going to add something.

CADIE: That was what I was going to say. I can have a vision of what I want my relationships to look like, but I can't control what the other person in the relationship is going to want or do next. It's unrealistic for me to force that on them. So a question I have been finding helpful is, what kind of person do I need to be to live this vision I'm thinking about? I can't control their response, but I can control mine. Who do I want to be as I get older? What kind of person do I want to be? What would that look like in this relationship? Then it's all my responsibility to be that person.

AUDREY: Great point. Another word that's used in some of the sources we're using to prepare this event is outcome.

Fear Versus Faith

AUDREY: Cadie, Tracie has given the example in past podcasts and past discussions about her family gatherings. Maybe she knows what she doesn't want. One of the words we haven't used yet is fear versus faith. I think that's a very important fundamental difference here. When we're in the victim mentality, we're very fearful. You can see threads of this if you go back and listen to the ways we described problem stories and problem situations. There are a lot of fears about what we're going to do, what other people will think, how we're not going to show up and be enough, all of that. Creator orientation is a place of faith, and faith is a principle of action and power. So we're taking action around a predetermined outcome. The reason Tracie kept talking about this spiritual creation is because we've gone to the work of deciding what it is we want instead.

AUDREY: So much of what's happening in victim is that something has happened in life. We've been in an accident, or someone has betrayed us, and it's something we didn't want to have happen to us. In that sense we are kind of a victim of life, but we don't want to be in victim orientation. We want to take that experience, turn it into a challenger, and show up as a creator. But we cannot do that without determining what we want instead, now that these are my new circumstances. When my father passed suddenly when I was sixteen years old, that was my new circumstance. There was no going back. There was no changing it. There was only accepting it and creating new visions and outcomes of who I was going to be, how I was going to show up for the people around me, how I was going to be in my family. Vision is that outcome we predetermine, that we spiritually create, like Tracie kept saying. We hold it in our mind. We cling to it to keep us in that creator orientation.

Willing to Do the Work

LINDSEY: I love what Cadie said about holding this creation in our mind, this outcome. But we're also willing to do the work. We're willing to act in faith. We're willing to take responsibility. So the vision is based on reality, and it's based on what we can actually control, but we're also willing to do the work. We don't just set the vision and then expect it to happen. We're taking the responsibility to make it happen.

[Speaker attribution uncertain in this passage. Voice matches Lindsey’s earlier "based in reality" language, but verify against audio.]

AUDREY: That's a good component of vision. And creating the vision is a big part of taking ownership. We can't just decide to stay a creator. If we don't do the work to build out a new vision for ourselves in this new reality we find ourselves in, then we will flip back into [victim] orientation. There's no other way for it to go, because we don't know why we're being a creator. We lose sight of it constantly, and those negative emotions and reactions to a situation we didn't choose, or don't like, are going to overwhelm us if we're not hanging on to a new vision for ourselves, our lives, our way of being. It's indispensable to staying in creator orientation.

[The recording says "flip back into creator orientation" here. Corrected to victim, which is clearly what was meant. Confirm before publishing.]

Cadie’s Story: A Relationship With No Contact

CADIE: If I could share a little experience on this, I would love to. I have a person in my life who I have a very close relationship with. Some years ago this person decided they didn't want to be involved in my life anymore. You might be able to say in some terms that this person abandoned our relationship. When that happened, it was a pretty traumatic experience for me, and I felt like I legitimately was the victim of that circumstance. And I didn't want to be.

CADIE: One of the ways I know I am in drama is that I obsess over the same event over and over. It gets replayed over and over. That's a huge part of victim. That's all I thought about. When I didn't have to be thinking of anything else, that was what I was thinking about. So I knew I was stuck, because victims are always stuck. And I wanted to change that. It took me a long time to be able to change it. MDM is such a wonderfully faith based community, and there are some circumstances in which I could not get out of victim by myself. On that one I had to turn to God and ask him to help me. He got me out of victim on that one.

CADIE: However, just like Audrey was saying, I can easily flip back into victim if I dwell on that problem. But the thing that keeps me out of it is this idea of a vision of what that relationship could look like someday. I cannot control this other person at all. But like I was saying before, what kind of person do I need to be so that if this person came back to me, we could start a relationship again? I need to be the kind of person who has an open heart and is willing to forgive. I need to be the kind of person who is able to have maybe challenging conversations, but with empathy and love. I can't control the other person, but my vision is of who I want to be. [Unrecoverable phrase in the recording.] I'm working on becoming that person.

Choosing the Kind of Relationship You Have

AUDREY: That's beautiful, Cadie. While you were telling that story I was thinking, and I don't know if you've thought about it quite this way, but part of what you're saying is that you actually still have a relationship with this person. You are choosing the kind of relationship you have with this person, even when there's no contact. That is such a creator way of being in the world. It's a vision focused, optimistic perspective. And it's a choice. It's an intention. You're choosing to forgive. You're choosing to love. You're choosing to think positively. You are absolutely controlling your responses to a situation you didn't choose, you didn't want, and that was incredibly painful for you. That's such a great example of the way we can choose to be creators.

AUDREY: Could you juxtapose for us how you were feeling when you were in that victim place toward this person, stewing about it, versus how you're feeling right now as you're talking? Because in both instances you were still in a relationship with this person. It's like that statistic about the big chunk of women who, after they divorce, are still miserable for years and years, because they're still in a relationship with their ex. They're just not choosing to be in a good one.

CADIE: Before, it was quite awful. All you're doing is replaying. I was rehashing every conversation. I was replaying everything that had gone wrong, and it felt terrible. I was miserable all throughout the day. I was tired, because it takes a lot of emotional energy to do that over and over, and to be angry all of the time over this thing. It got in the way of my relationships. I'd be watching my kids playing outside, and instead of laughing over the funny things they were doing, my eyes were tracking them but my brain was rehashing.

CADIE: Now I don't obsess over it at all. Most of the time my thought is, this person is right in the palm of God's hand. He knows exactly where they are, and I don't need to worry about it anymore. I just need to be ready. Will they come back? And if they do, what kind of person do I need to be to say, come back, I've been waiting for you?

AUDREY: What are your feelings when you think about them now, when you think about this situation?

CADIE: There can still be times when it can be difficult, when I can think, it's tough that this is happening. I still don't like this. But overall, when I think about them, I try to remember the best memories.

AUDREY: Do you have more peace? Do you feel more peaceful than you did?

CADIE: More hopeful. Way more hopeful.

AUDREY: That's beautiful. Does anybody else have another example of how hanging on to a vision has helped them stay in creator orientation?

Tracie’s Double Vision

TRACIE: I have a child who has a lot of lofty goals right now, and sometimes this child doesn't follow through with her plans. I can tend to get into persecutor mode quite quickly in that situation, or I can get into rescuer quite easily, trying to smooth her way and do a lot of things for her because it will make it easier and faster. But I have to remember that I'm in drama in those instances. I need to hold a vision of how I can show up for her, the type of coach and mentor I want to be for her.

TRACIE: It's a double vision. It's how I want to show up, but also who she is as a child of God, and what truly is best for her personal growth. Is it this really narrowed goal she has, or is it becoming a whole, complete person, and all the other experiences she could have? So it's this dual vision I have, for her and also for me. I have to keep that constantly before me, to calm down in those moments and step intentionally into creator instead of into victim, or the drama triangle and all those roles. That's helped me a lot in that relationship, to keep that vision and to intentionally choose the creator empowerment dynamic.

Rescuing, Growth, and Character

AUDREY: Thank you, Tracie. That's beautiful. For me, when I'm really holding a vision, I was thinking of one of my own children when you were sharing that example. And I was thinking of someone who stepped out of my life when Cadie was telling her example. Very similar situations to both of you women. When I really am holding the proper vision, I feel a sense of calm and reassurance, remembering the principles, that it is better for my child to learn the lessons now while they're young. If I smooth the way too much, it will keep them from their growth. It will stunt their growth if I get in the way with all of my rescuing victim way of being.

AUDREY: And the reason I'm doing that is because I don't want them to suffer. I don't want them to have pain. And yet pain and suffering are how we learn and grow. Muscles have to be torn down. Whatever the analogy is, that's the way to growth. Jordan Peterson has this beautiful thing he said once, that a mother's job is the hardest in the world, because she has to bring a child into the world and grow them up and then sacrifice them to the world. That's a very hard process that we're all in the middle of. So I hold a vision of, I trust God, and I trust his laws and his principles, and I'm going to step away and really orient myself to a different role, and hold a vision of who I'm going to be for them and not shortchange them in their growth.

AUDREY: I feel calmer. I feel more in control of myself. I'm not giving in to my knee jerk reactions to rescue and soothe and pave the way and all those kinds of things. Those are some of the feelings I have when I really hang on to that vision and keep myself in creator orientation. And afterwards, when I'm in a hard moment and I really have to pull that vision to the forefront of my mind and cling to it, and I perform in a way I know was a creator way of being, I really feel proud of myself. Maybe that sounds funny to say, but there's this kind of self commendation of, that was hard. That was hard to be a creator in that moment. And I did it, and I'm a little bit stronger now, and I can do that again. We can have this upward trajectory of growth in ourselves as we choose the vision that keeps us a creator, and keep sculpting our character over time. I do believe this whole process is also a process of character sculpting. Exactly like Cadie said, it is a key way we can start to become that person we would really like to be.

AUDREY: Thank you so much. Any last thoughts or words on holding vision, or using vision to stay in creator orientation, as we finish up?

Remember How Good It Feels

TRACIE: I have to say, just remember how good it feels when you have that vision, because it does take a lot of work. It's easy to know what you don't want. It's a lot harder to know what you do want. And it's work to write that down and to figure it out. But every time I've done that, I feel so much better. Like we talked about in the last episode, like Lindsey said, it's an exhale. It's calm. It's like, okay, now we're ready to go. And when I get stuck, as I still do in victim, I try to remember that you felt so much better. Remember the vision. Remember the vision. I just have to replay it, and it really does help.

[Speaker attribution uncertain. This speaker refers to Lindsey in the third person, so it is Tracie or Cadie. Note also that this passage credits the "exhale" line to Lindsey, which contradicts the working attribution in the EP 166 transcript. Worth checking both against audio.]

AUDREY: That's perfect.

CADIE: It's so much easier to get excited about life when you're in creator mode. And that's really my goal for myself. I want to wake up in the morning excited for the things I'm going to create.

[Speaker attribution uncertain.]

AUDREY: I love that. It reminds me of something Stephen Covey said. He said that when we are principle centered, we see life as a great adventure, and adventures have pitfalls and traps, but they also have vistas. When we can see life that way, we know it won't be perfect, but we can have that realistic optimism that keeps us grounded, but also hopeful.

Closing Thoughts and Invitation

AUDREY: I hope this little discussion on vision was helpful for those of you who were listening. I hope these podcasts we've been putting out around victim and drama and creator orientation and vision are proving to be helpful in your everyday life, that you're seeing yourself in the stories and examples we're sharing, and that you're feeling more armed to live according to better principles and to liberate yourself with truth. If you want to know more, keep listening, pass these podcasts along, and consider joining us at our event this fall. We would love to see you there. All the information is below in the description. Thank you so much for joining us today. And thank you again to Tracie, Lindsey, and Cadie for these incredible discussions. We're excited to be a speaking team presenting this fall. So grateful for them, and for all of you for listening. We will see you next time.