EP 162 Are You Adding the Drama?

Resources from the Episode: 

• Mothers of Creation - Provo, Utah - September 26th

You know the feeling. Something happens. Maybe your husband sleeps in, maybe the house is a mess again, maybe a conversation goes sideways. And before you have said a word, there it is. A tightening in your stomach. A low hum of frustration you carry around for the rest of the morning.

That feeling is drama. And it is not the situation causing it. It is the story you are telling yourself about the situation.

This week I sat down with Cadie Hatch, Tracie Hyde, and Lindsey Wright for a panel conversation on victimhood: what it actually is, how it shows up in real life, and what it feels like from the inside. All four of us got honest about our own patterns. And I think you are going to hear yourself in this one.

AI-GENERATED TRANSCRIPT

Episode 162: Drama & Victimhood — A Panel Discussion

Introduction

AUDREY: Welcome back to the podcast. I’m Audrey Rindlisbacher, author of The Mission Driven Life and founder of The Mission Driven Mom. Today I have with me CADIE Hatch, Tracie Hyde, and Lindsey Wright, and we’re going to talk for a few minutes about drama and victimhood. We’ve been preparing content for our upcoming Mothers of Creation celebration, focusing on these themes — drama and victimhood, creation and vision — because those are the things we’re going to spend all day on at the event. We’ve been having discussions in the background, preparing our presentations, working on our own problem stories, and having our own experiences with the content. So today we just want to talk a little about drama and victimhood. And I want to start with a very simple question: how would you describe a victim? What do we mean when we say “victim” here? How does each of you understand that?

What Do We Mean by “Victim”?

CADIE: I would say victims are kind of all around us. All of us can have this tendency to fall into the victim mindset. But regardless of the circumstances they’re in, victims see things in the negative. They want to focus on the problem — on the thing that’s annoying them — and they’ll stay stuck in the emotions and negativity around that problem for as long as they choose to.

AUDREY: Great description, CADIE. To reiterate what you’re saying: there are victims in the world who are genuinely victimized — we’re not questioning that. But what we’re talking about is the drama triangle, and specifically the victim role within it, recognizing that we all show up in our lives as victims at times. That means we have areas of our life we don’t like, that are uncomfortable, where we feel frustrated and stuck and negative. It doesn’t mean everything in our world is falling apart, or that we can’t get out of bed in the morning. But it does mean there may well be an area of your life where, when you think about it or talk about it, your thoughts and feelings and words are predominantly negative — and you just don’t like it, and you don’t like thinking or talking about it, because it’s such an uncomfortable area. Any other thoughts on how you’d describe a victim, or on victimhood and the victim mentality?

Responsibility and Powerlessness

Tracie: I think an important word is responsibility. Victims don’t take responsibility, because that would mean they’d have to act or create. Instead they feel acted upon, powerless, and they push responsibility off. For example, I do this a lot in my marriage. My husband is really great at taking responsibility, and I’ve had to learn through the years, through his example, that I need to take responsibility for what’s mine — instead of saying, “No, that’s something you did,” or casting blame on someone else for why this happened. I need to own it and say, “Yes, that was my responsibility, and now I need to act and make a difference.”

AUDREY: I love that. And even just taking responsibility for our response, for our attitude about what’s happening — parsing out what we can and can’t control has been so vital for me. I like that word you used, Tracie: powerless. A victim orientation feels powerless, like things are out of our control, like we’re being acted upon.

LINDSEY: They weren’t supposed to be like this, and we’re so mad about it. The world is the way it is, and I’m the way I am, and nothing’s going to change no matter what I do.

Tracie: And how I feel in victim mode is a pit in my stomach. I feel anxious, unhappy, unsatisfied, stuck — it’s not a great place to live.

CADIE: I feel the exact same way, which is so interesting to me. When I’m in drama, I feel it in my stomach — that tightening — and it’s something I’m adding to the situation. Here’s a general example: my husband loves to sleep in, and he’ll sleep in and feel no guilt about it — “This is great, I got to sleep in.” And I’ll be thinking, “Oh, I just missed two hours of things I should have done.” I’m the one adding the drama to the situation.

AUDREY: Or the expectation.

Are We Adding the Drama?

AUDREY: It’s interesting, Tracie, because of what you said about not taking responsibility. What’s fascinating is that it’s so easy to tell yourself you’re not in drama, that you’re not acting like a victim, that you’re not focused on yourself — because you’re doing stuff. But why are you doing this stuff? How are you doing it? And is doing it actually alleviating the negative emotions you’re trying to be rid of? If those actions don’t really make you feel better, then that’s not actually taking responsibility for what you can take responsibility for. A good example: I’m still a recovering rescuer. I want to have all the answers for everybody and tell them how things ought to be, so I’m often doing something — but I’m still stuck right in the middle of the drama. And when people don’t respond to my rescuing the way I want them to, I have an excuse to go back and play the victim and lick my wounds: “They didn’t even take my good advice.” Because ultimately I’m not taking responsibility for what’s mine; I’m just reacting to a situation that’s uncomfortable.

Not About Positive Thinking

LINDSEY: I like that. Can I share something? I came across this the other day — it’s a book we use in the MDM Academy called 13 Things Mentally Strong People Don’t Do. I think what we’re describing, this victim orientation, is really that we’re mentally and emotionally weak in some areas. Becoming a creator is a strength we have to develop. And I know we’re going to do another whole podcast on this, but it’s not about positive thinking. We keep saying victim is negative and creator is positive, so it’s easy to hear that as “I just have to think positively all the time” — and there’s a nuance to clarify there. The author, Amy Morin, says mental strength is about thinking realistically and rationally. A victim isn’t thinking realistically or rationally; they’re blowing things out of proportion, holding themselves and others to impossible, unrealistic standards. They’re not seeing themselves clearly or telling themselves the truth. So it’s not just “make every thought positive.” It’s becoming intentional: we notice a thought, we notice the guilt we’ve attached to something, and we get curious about it instead of judging it — not “I’m a bad person for feeling guilty about sleeping in,” but “That’s interesting. What is that teaching me, and how am I responding?” Then we become intentional about showing up differently — and the pit in the stomach starts to loosen, and we get out of the drama.

AUDREY: Great stuff, Lindsey. If you’re interested in what exactly those victim types are, Lindsey and I did some podcasts on them recently, so you can go back and review those.

Which Victim Do You Show Up As?

AUDREY: With that in mind, I’d love to hear from each of you. How do you identify with this framework? What kind of victim do you show up as? And more importantly, how has having this language — being able to recognize it — been helpful for you?

CADIE: I’ve really learned that I show up as different types of victims in different circumstances. My typical go-to — my “home victim” — is the perfectionist. Lindsey has done an incredible job identifying these different types, and among the four of us we feel we’ve identified another one to add to the list: the perfectionist. That’s my home victim. But I’ve noticed I show up as different types depending on what I’m doing. Recently I learned that when I go to clean my house, I very quickly become the martyr: “I’ve taught you all better than this. I’ve taught you to put your clothes away, to put your shoes away, and you don’t do it. Why don’t you appreciate me?” I get so frustrated with my family. But the reality is people are coming in and out of the house all day, we’re all busy, and things get left because it’s real life. When you’re living, you make a mess, and it has to be cleaned up eventually. It doesn’t mean they’re completely irresponsible human beings because they didn’t put their shoes in the rack like I asked. So I need to slow down and recognize that we’re still good people.

AUDREY: That’s awesome, CADIE. So how has having that language helped you? Because it could just become one more way to feel bad about yourself, right? One more thing that’s wrong with you: “Now look at another victim type — here I am being a martyr.” Is it actually helpful, or is it just one more way to beat ourselves up?

CADIE: It depends on how you want to look at it. If you want to stay in victim and use it as a battering ram to beat yourself up, you can. But if you want to recognize — as I’ve learned, because Lindsey has done so much amazing work with this — that there’s an antidote, then I can choose to use it and get out, or choose not to and stay stuck. Knowing all the different victim types helps me, because I think, “I know there’s an antidote to this one, so let me use it, get myself out, and start feeling better a lot faster.”

AUDREY: I love that, Cadie — and I love that you used the word choice. We keep coming back to that word. Another concern women might have is, “Come on, I can’t be perfect all the time. I shouldn’t be upset when I’m vacuuming, or when I host a party.” But we’re not saying that. We’re saying we want to give you choices — the opportunity to recognize what you’re doing. If you don’t like how you’re feeling, if this is an area of your life where you get a pit in your stomach and feel negative and worried and upset and you just don’t want to feel that way, we’re giving you an option to recognize it. And the reason that matters so fundamentally is that you can’t change what you don’t see. So we’re just trying to help you have eyes to see this pattern — in yourself, and in all of us, because we’re all human — and to see that it’s a way of being we can choose out of, if we want the truth to make us free and we want to know how to make a different choice: to choose an antidote that kicks us back out of it.

How It Helps: Compassion, Ownership, and Peace

AUDREY: As we finish up, I’d love to hear one example from each of you. How has understanding drama, victimhood, and victim types made your life a little bit better — in your mothering, your marriage, your other relationships? We’ll talk more about being creators and having vision in future podcasts, so I want to speak specifically to the ability to recognize this, to see it in yourself, and to have words for it. How is that helping you?

LINDSEY: For me, it’s empowering. The words help make something abstract more concrete, so I’m not as confused. I don’t wonder, “What’s going on with me?” I can see what’s happening — and if I can see it, I can change it. Becoming more aware has allowed me to flip it, because I don’t want to be that. But it’s also helped me be more compassionate toward myself and toward others. Just like Cadie said, we get to decide whether we use these tools to beat ourselves up or to empower ourselves. We could use this information to beat other people up — “You’re being a victim” — or to recognize what’s happening with ourselves and others and say, “Oh, I think I understand what’s going on, and I know what role I need to play, because I can see where we are in this dreaded drama triangle.” So it just helps me have a little more compassion for myself and others.

AUDREY: I love that, Lindsey. Other thoughts?

Tracie: It’s helped me realize that I’m the problem. I think I’ve gone through life assuming I’m not the problem — that things just weren’t working out in relationships, for some strange reason. But now that I can see a lot of it starts with me, then, like Lindsey said, I can see how to get myself out. The other thing is helping others get out of drama. You can’t necessarily tell someone they’re in drama — that’s something we each have to recognize for ourselves — but there’s a way to ask questions and lead them out. That’s been huge for my family, because we all have this lesson to learn, including our children. If we can help them take those steps out of the darkness into the light, our family relationships are so much better. They’re able to engage with the world in a positive way, enjoy more happiness, and avoid that pit in their stomachs — and the same for us. It leads us all to a happier, more light-filled life.

AUDREY: I love that, Tracie.

CADIE: I love what you said, Lindsey, about feeling more compassion. As I was thinking about this, I’ve felt the same way — compassion has really increased for myself and for the people around me. My husband and I have a lot going on in our neighborhood and community; we like to be out and part of the projects happening in our town. And I’ve noticed that when you’re working on a project, it’s easy for drama to arise. Understanding the drama triangle and being a creator helps us make a lot of peace in the circles of influence we’re part of. So it’s not just about helping yourself feel better — though it does that, and that’s hugely valuable — you can create a lot of peace. The more people I talk to, especially the older people I speak with, the more I hear, “I don’t remember there ever being so much hostility in society as there is now.” And I’ve found that if I can approach a situation recognizing that this person might be in a victim orientation right now — I’m not going to tell them, “You’re being a victim,” because that doesn’t create peace — but if I can recognize that they might be in drama, and that I might be playing a role in it, then I can ask, “How can I help them get out? How do we help this calm down?” It creates much more peace and much more civil conversation. Ultimately, that’s what we’re shooting for: an improved cultural experience for all of us.

AUDREY: When you say it like that, it makes me think that understanding this victim orientation is just a tool to love better — to love ourselves and love others better.

CADIE: Loving your neighbor is huge, right? The golden rule — treat others the way you’d want to be treated. When I’m upset about something, I don’t need someone coming and yelling at me about it. Talk to me, listen to me for a minute, let me talk to you, let’s go back and forth and have a conversation. Let’s not just assume the worst in the other person. Victims, because they put so much blame on others, always assume “they’re the problem, they’re the problem.” If we can get out of that, we can have a much better influence.

Closing Thoughts and Invitation

AUDREY: I love that. That’s a beautiful way to end this discussion. Thank you, ladies, so much — that was really insightful. It’s inspiring to be reminded that we have so much more power than we think we have. We can change so many more things, and have so much more influence on ourselves and others, than we think we can. But we need to educate ourselves, gain recognition and understanding, and work toward the principled thinking that truly liberates us. That’s what we’re hoping to provide.

AUDREY: We’re super excited for this event coming this fall in the beautiful mountains of Utah at the end of September — Mothers of Creation. We hope you’ll plan to join us. If you haven’t signed up, there’s a link below to learn more and register, and you’ll get instant access to Lindsey and to the community of mothers who are coming, learning more, and asking questions as they prepare for an incredible event. Otherwise, we hope these podcasts and this information are of great value to you. If so, please pass them along to a friend — it helps us grow and reach more women who want to be empowered with principles. And if this content interests you, keep listening; these are themes we’ll continue to revisit in the months leading up to the event. We’re so grateful you’re here with us, and we’ll see you next time.