EP 154 From Floundering to Finding Herself

Resources mentioned in the episode:

I want to introduce you to Lindsey.

She's a mother of five, a homeschooler, and one of the most principled women I know. But when she first came to MDM, she described herself the same way so many of us do.

Floundering. A little lost. A little depressed. She had accomplished everything she had set out to do and then stood there wondering, okay, now what?

On this week's episode, Lindsey shares what changed for her. And I think you're going to hear yourself in her story.

Here's a little of what she talks about:

The moment she learned the difference between a victim and a creator, and realized, uncomfortably, which one she had been
How she went from avoiding hard conversations to having them with clarity and courage
What happened in her relationship with her oldest daughter when she stopped expecting her to be just like her
Why she says MDM helped her get her heart and her mind to finally talk to each other
What it felt like to walk into a room of women who actually understood her and say for the first time, I found my people

That last one is so incredibly precious. Because I know how rare it is. And I know how much it changes everything when you finally have it.

Come listen. Because Lindsey's story is the kind that can shift something inside you.

AI Generated Transcript

Audrey: Welcome back to the podcast. I am Audrey Rindlisbacher, author of The Mission- Driven Life and founder of the Mission-Driven Mom. And like I have been talking about, we are hearing from some women who are going to share their experiences with learning to better love themselves and God, and the impact that had on their relationships, their community immediately around them, and the larger community around them.

Audrey: Today, we have Lindsay Wright, who it is an honor to know. For those of you that get involved or have been involved in MDM, she is a mentor for us, head mentor, and she helps train the mentors. She is incredible, but she had her own journey with these principles, like we all do. And so we are going to begin at the beginning with her story and have her start by talking to us about who she is. Tell us a little bit about yourself, Lindsay, and then where you were at before MDM.

Lindsay's Background and Early Motherhood

Lindsay: Sure. Thanks for letting me be on the podcast. I love the opportunity. It is hard to remember what life was like before, so I am a mother of five. My oldest is almost twenty-four. And then my youngest is twelve. And you have talked about this a lot, too, in those early days of motherhood, when they were all young. I loved it. That was my dream job, to be a mother. In fact, I had some big goals for life. I wanted to be a mom, I wanted a college degree. I had those big goals, and I had accomplished all of them by the time I was in my twenties.

After that, you are in the thick of mothering, which is fantastic. But I did feel like I was floundering a little bit. And you have talked about this before, and I resonate with it, that you get lost a little bit in motherhood. It is consuming, and it is often thankless, although everybody appreciates the mother. They do not always say it. But I just remember floundering, I think that would be the word. Just not knowing what to do or where to spend my time and feeling a little lost. Maybe even a little bit depressed. I just did not know, okay, where do I go from here?

Discovering MDM and Level One

Lindsay: Joining the MDM community and going through Level One changed that dramatically. In Level One, it starts with the idea of natural law, like these principles that there is truth and that we can know it, and that we can use it to make the changes that we want to make and to know what those changes even are. And so in Level One, you are putting yourself together. You are making your physical needs a priority. You are making your mental needs a priority. You are studying; you are learning. That intellectual stimulation really is meaningful and gives life a lot of meaning as you are learning, as you are making friends and discussing things, and putting your spiritual house in order.

And then one of my favorite parts of Level One is just the self-discovery. So learning, what am I good at? What are my natural strengths? How can I develop them? How can I use them to help other people, like we said, to influence the culture for good? It was just life-changing.

The Drama Triangle

Audrey: So, can you give us a specific story, or event, or principle that you feel like made a difference for you?

Lindsay: I remember when we were learning about the drama triangle. That was such a paradigm shift for me, just to have the words for it. That creator is the opposite of a victim. And I did not necessarily think that I was a victim. I did not think that I was steeped in a victim mentality. But I was in the middle of some big drama at the time, and it was so helpful to see the different roles that were being played and the different roles I was playing in the drama cycle. And to know what to do to change that.

So that was a big deal. And I am still learning. I am still working on it. There are still multiple subtle ways that we show up in this victim orientation every day. And so I am super excited. I have been diving deep into different ways of being a victim, and it has been fun to just get more depth in my understanding of the drama cycle and how to be a creator.

Audrey: Lindsay has been mentoring our Mothers of Creation group. When you get a ticket to the event this fall, then you are in an online community with us, and she is mentoring that group. And so it has really been a lot of deep diving into those principles and phenomenal concepts being talked about. So that has been awesome.

Communing with Yourself and God

Audrey: This idea of the root word of "commune" and what it means to commune better with ourselves, to commune better with God, to have better communication with ourselves and with God, and then the extension of having better communication and community around us. So before we head into the community piece, I am curious, first of all, how do you feel like your relationship with yourself transformed? How did that communing and that better communication, the principles that we work on at MDM, what can you articulate about the change in yourself?

Lindsay: I think for me it has been a journey of getting my heart and my mind to talk to each other.

Audrey: What do you mean by that?

Lindsay: Our heart is where our values are. That is where we feel things. That is where we have desire and motivation. And then in our mind is the logic and the reason and all those things that we associate with the intellectual life. And I have always been very

much in my mind, very intellectual. That is just how I approached the world. Give me a book, tell me what to do, so I can know what to do. And through the academy, I am learning, and I am still learning, how to tap more into the heart, how to tap more into my values. Like, I know what my values are. But how do I pay attention to those feelings? How do we know we are in drama? It starts with a feeling. How do we relate with people? It starts with the heart. And for me, it is that communication between the heart and mind that is a better way to approach life, with both of them being active instead of just the one.

Audrey: Fascinating. So would you say that part of that process has been to align your thoughts more with who you really are or what you really value?

Lindsay: Yeah, for sure. Like I said, we get to know ourselves on a deeper level in Level One. And so understanding my unique strengths and also the strengths of others, because we are not the same. And I think sometimes in the past I had thought my way is the best way, and I expected everybody to be like me. And so now I have this greater appreciation that I really appreciate when people are not like me, because they bring balance to me. They fill in the gaps for me. And so I really love that we have these different, unique strengths.

Also, this idea that we can see these strengths. I think I had seen some of my strengths as weaknesses, or I just had not understood them. Why am I this way? Why do I do this, and why does it cause problems? And so really, on both sides of that coin, learning to see myself differently is definitely helping my heart and my mind to align better. But also, my heart to somebody else's heart is more in line because I feel like I can see myself more clearly, and I am learning to see others more clearly.

Audrey: So, how does it help you see others more clearly? How has the development of your relationship with yourself and these principles that you have learned, how has that bled over into your other relationships?

Lindsay: Part of it is that I do not expect others to be like me, like I said. So simple, but so profound. And I want to add that it is not just, I think a lot of us might say that truth, and I think people listening might be like, “Yeah, of course.” But there is something very profound and permanent that happens when you actually understand the ways that we are different. You do not expect them to be like you because you understand truly, deeply that there are different ways for other people to fundamentally be, and that there is value in that, and that it is important that they are that way.

So often, we take our way of being, and we think it is the only way, the right way, because it works for us, and we elevate our applications to the level of principle. And then we start judging other people because we are saying, oh, they are not living the principle. And actually, it is just a different application. And as I learned to see myself clearly, then I can start to see that difference in application. I can see where we are the same, I can see where we can build those bridges. But then I can also value the differences in others.

And I think this is something I have just realized recently, because I am seeing myself more clearly, I do not need others to validate me. I do not need others to be like me. I am just comfortable being me. And that just, it is just like letting go of a lot of baggage. It is just a lightness, a confidence in my way of being. And I am still learning. I am so far from perfect. But yes, there is a self-acceptance there.

The Mission Statement and Building Bridges

Audrey: You mentioned something, and I was thinking about what you were saying just now, and how at one point, I remember a few years ago, you bought, is it a painting or a picture of a bridge? And there was something about that that resonated with you. What was that?

Lindsay: It is actually a part of my mission statement. I came across this idea of bridges in Level Three of the Academy. This idea that is how we can have influence for good, is when we can see the things that we agree on, that we can see the things that are the same. It builds a bridge of understanding. And it allows us to work together. It allows us, it is that thing that allows us to appreciate the differences. And so I actually made it part of my mission statement.

Audrey: Let us hear it.

Lindsay: Here is my mission statement: Seek and speak truth with love. Build bridges through education. Strengthen faith, freedom, and family through servant leadership. So that idea of the bridge just has all those different meanings in it for me. It is a place, it helps us to move, it helps us to get from one side to the other. And for me, education is one of the ways that we get to the other side. It is one of those ways that we learn to build the bridges.

Audrey: There are two things I was thinking when you were saying that. It is such a beautiful image for the bridges we all want to build with the people in our lives that we want to be closer to. And the sense of greater community, being able to cross back and forth and connect with anyone and build those relationships or heal relationships or improve relationships that seem stuck or stale or injured.

And it is such a beautiful idea that as we see ourselves more clearly and as we understand the ways that everyone is different, we actually feel more unity. It is so much like the body that Paul talks about in the Bible, that we are all part of the body, we are all needed, whether you are an ear or a finger, each one is important and valuable.

And the kinds of tests and assessments that we take in Levels One and Two are really eye-opening for that in a practical sense. But I was also thinking about how you were saying that you aligned your heart and your mind, and that you see the value of building these bridges to build greater levels of community and to build relationships. And what is actually happening to you in all of these different ways is that you are thinking differently. And that is one of the things that we talk about a lot. A lot of people are telling all of us to be different. There are a lot of influencers in this information age, and they are saying you need to do this, that, or the other. But we are clearing out all of that. Like you talked about, the difference between principle and application, is someone's recommendation a principle or an application? How do you discern that? And once you know it is a principle, how do you apply that properly and how can you use those principles that you learn to change the way that you think? Because if you change the way that you think, then you change the way you believe. And those new, better, healthier beliefs that better align with truth then naturally bring about those healthier relationships.

Lindsay: Yeah, exactly.

Impact on Family Relationships

Audrey: So how would you say all of this has impacted your home, the relationships in your home, the little community that you are in every day?

Lindsay: I think it has helped save those relationships at home. My oldest daughter, in particular, we are very different, and it was causing a lot of contention. Before, I learned to recognize in what ways are we the same. I had to start there. What is going well? What is good about this other person? Where are we the same? How can I understand this other person? But then also add that other element of, okay, here is where we are different, and here is why, and here is why that might cause a little bit of conflict. And then here is how we resolve it. And so it was thinking differently about that relationship in particular.

But then it is every child on down the line. I feel like I have been able to see the good in them because they are all different. I have five children that are all completely different, and I have been able to see the good in them, to help them to see their strengths, to help them work through false beliefs, to help them understand these core ideas that will help them to be successful, that will help them to be happy. And I feel like instead of being an emotional voice, I am more of a voice of reason. I feel like they listen to me and respect the things I say. They do not always agree with what I say. But there is a level of respect there because I think they have come to learn that mom is going to come to this in a principled way, and I can trust her. I do not have to agree with her application. But it has been a strength, I hope, for all of my kids.

Audrey: Oh, I love that. And one of the things that we talk about sometimes that I think we have both experienced in our homes is it takes away much of the friction, because exactly what you were saying, that now everyone is on a unified hunt to get at the heart of what is really going on and to see a principle that everyone can then do something about, instead of this push and pull of, I am right, you are wrong, or it is my way versus your way. And fighting down at that level of application rather than principle. And once they get that, because I am sure your home is a lot like mine has been, over time this language of principles starts to infuse the home. And then you have a better way of talking about what is going on and what the problems are.

Lindsay: And not being afraid to confront the things that need to be confronted. If there really is a problem, in the past I would have avoided it, and the problem would have just kept getting bigger. I am an avoider. That is one of the ways to be a victim. And now, because my thinking has changed, because I have a more solid foundation and principles to back up the things that I want, I have more courage to do the hard things that need to be done, to have those hard conversations that sometimes need to be had. I have more clarity about what actually needs to be said or what needs to be changed and why it needs to be changed. It is not just because I said so, but it is actually because this is causing disorder in our family. That is how we know a principle is being broken, right? Because you get the contention, you get the disorder, you have this lack of peace. And so to be able to recognize it and then have the courage to deal with it and to know what to do to deal with it, I think has been very empowering.

Audrey: That is awesome. What is it that gives you the courage? Why do you think your courage has increased?

Lindsay: For me, I think it is the principles. It is knowing those things that we ought to do, those things that will, in the long term and often in the short term, lead to peace and happiness and success. Just knowing that there is an answer and that we can know it.

Audrey: Yes. And a corollary for me has just been hope. I am much less likely to fall into despair and to feel like I am broken or that the situation is broken. In fact, I have someone close to me right now who is really struggling in their relationship with themselves, and it has taken a while for me to help them see that that is actually the root of the problem. And it is so interesting because they finally recently have been coming to terms with, I actually do not really like myself. I have a problem in my relationship with myself. And then they started saying, but now I do not know what else. That is all I know. That is the head I have been living in all these years.

Lindsay: And it served them, right? They developed those behaviors and those thoughts because at one point it seemed to be helpful. It was a coping mechanism. I have those too, and I have had to learn that I do not have to create stress in order to get things done. I do not have to white-knuckle my way through everything. I actually can trust, and like you said, lean into that hope. And so those old thoughts are no longer serving me. And I can do things differently, and then we can show our kids, yes, that thought served you in the past, it protected you, it helped you get through things. But you are different now, and so you can think differently now.

Audrey: And it is so interesting because they got to this point of accepting that there was a problem, and I could see their countenance lift a little bit, like, oh, maybe there is hope. But then this worry of, but I do not know what to do. I do not know what to make different. And I was like, look, frankly, you are past the hardest point. Accepting that you do need to change, and that in fact you have misbeliefs and wrong beliefs and that they are not serving you anymore, and that it is time to make a change, is actually the hardest point to get to. Just like admitting that you have been acting like a victim can be the hardest point to get to. And actually, with some decent tools and a little bit of guidance, with some good principles, now that you know you have been believing lies, now you can just believe the truth. You can just find and acquaint yourself with the truth and start thinking more of the truth, more of the time, and it will start to correct itself.

Audrey: So really beautiful. Okay. It has had this positive impact on your relationships in a myriad of ways, creating more unity, creating more self-acceptance, and courage on your end. So harder conversations have been had, more principles have been lived, and you have had a lot more acceptance of not just yourself, but of the people around you as a consequence of better accepting yourself, which is ironic. You felt more unity, more sense of community unity. Unifying the identities, like we talk about.

Community Outside the Home

Audrey: So let us talk about the community outside your home, relationships with friends, with extended family members. I know that you homeschool and you have a homeschool community, and some of them have been involved as well. And then you do things at church. What stories or experiences come to mind in terms of, as you have been lifted, you have been able to lift your family, and it has also lifted the greater community around you in some important ways?

Lindsay: Yeah, so I think the biggest thing that I see is that I have the ability to influence for good. I have learned to say things, to articulate things with a focus on the principles. And so people are more likely to first of all listen to what I am saying, but then also recognize, “Oh, that is right, that is good, that is a good point.”

So for example, just recently, I am in my homeschool community. I used to be in more of a leadership position, but right now I just teach classes. And I recently have been helping to create our class schedule for next year. And I could see, because of my experience, and I have been with this community for a long time. I am one of the oldest families there, probably been there as long as or longer than most. I have taught and I have done the leadership positions, so I have some experience. I can see things. Plus I have this great education that I am getting through MDM and through the classics, through the great books. I can see patterns of human behavior and I can see the principles, what is going to lead to long-term success and happiness and stability.

And so I felt that as we were in a committee discussing these classes for next year, I was able to provide some really powerful insights and things to think about. I brought up vision. Where are we going? What is our vision? What is going to create that stability? Whose responsibility is it to get an education? First of all, it is the student's responsibility. But for a child, the parent is also responsible. So I was able to say things like, how can we put the responsibility back where it belongs? Because some of the systems and some of the policies have gotten away from the original vision, and they have gotten away from putting the responsibility where it belongs. Understanding the role of the community and the role of the classes and the role of the teachers and the role of the student. Just a clarity. So I feel like I was able to bring a lot of clarity and a lot of good questions to the conversation and to help people see things that maybe they were not aware of or had not seen before.

And I think that is true in all these relationships outside of my family. I have learned to say things in that principle-centered way. I have learned to be articulate, and plus I am confident in myself. I do not need their approval, I do not need their validation. They can disagree with me. They could not do it. But I am able to influence and to uplift and hopefully make things better in any area that I am working in.

Audrey: So you were able to lead out with principles and articulate some principles which then created shared truths that would resonate with them, so that you could bring them on board to some core truths and then ask empowering questions, principled empowering questions, that helped them to explore possibilities and to think a little bit better about how things could be different. And what did you feel like came out of your ability to now better articulate those principles and to bring them back to truths in their pursuits?

Lindsay: I think that is what surprised me the most, that since I started the MDM Academy and as I have continued to get a really great education, the thing that surprised me is that people actually do listen. They actually want to hear the things that I say, and they generally agree with them. Oh, you are right. It is those first principles that are these intuitive things written on our heart. And all you have to do is just point them out and people are like, oh yes, that makes sense, that is so much more clear.

Lindsay: And so I feel like, why would anybody listen to me? I am just a mom. All those things. The fateful words, just a mom. But I have these experiences and I know I have this ability to influence, to lift, to encourage, to make things better. And things that seem obvious to me, just because I have been living with this new way of thinking for so long, are not obvious to everybody else. And so I do feel like I am somebody that has something to offer, and that people listen and they want to hear what you have to say because it resonates, because you are speaking in truths.

Audrey: That is incredible. That is so powerful, and I am so glad that you said it the way that you said it. Because I get it, for those who are listening, if you are totally where Lindsay and I were at and it is like, do not even talk to me about being a leader and being an influence and helping my community, because I am so steeped in what is going on at home and I feel so overwhelmed on the daily that I cannot even. And that is okay. That is totally okay, because we have experienced it firsthand. We know, we get it. That is what motivated us to start doing the work.

It is just that when you learn to think in principled ways, people will just naturally seek out your leadership, your help, your insights, your meaningful questions, your feedback, because it is so needed, so rare, so different from the other voices that they are hearing. It resonates with them so much, and they know how badly they need it. And it nurtures something in us because it is written on our hearts, because it is how we were created. And people know intuitively that they need more of that and they have not known where to find it. And then you start providing this new perspective and way of looking at things and it is so refreshing because it is not divisive. You are not calling anybody out, you are not making any judgements. You are not telling people that they are wrong and they need to change. You are simply saying, let us look at it this way. Let us get down to fundamentals. Let us start from the ground up and then let us figure out what truths we share, how we can build on them, and what applications are best for our community.

Church and Leadership

Audrey: Whether that is your church community, because I know you have also brought these principles into your church community, and I know it has made a difference there. And I got an email the other day from a student who was so gracious and sweet. She just said, I just got asked to do some leadership in my church, and I would never have been able to do this a few years ago. And I am a little bit, honestly, a little above my pay grade still. But I am excited for the opportunity, excited to bring the principles in, and I only have the self-acceptance and the confidence and the courage to do it because I have learned to think so differently. And I am excited to bring that to bear in that situation.

Lindsay: And it is interesting as we start and continue on this journey, those experiences and those opportunities just seem to show up. That next level of growth that you need just falls into your lap one day and you learn and you grow and you lead out and you serve. And then the next thing shows up. But it just happens naturally. It is not forced. It just becomes a natural outgrowth. I feel like the opportunities in my life right now are just a natural outgrowth of who I am becoming.

Uprooting False Beliefs

Audrey: I think it is a fantastic journey. I love it. It reminds me of something I have been building out in this training we did once and are going to do as an encore. Links are in the description for those that want to come. I was combing through some old testimonials and one of the women was saying that the academy requires a vulnerability and self-honesty that can feel scary, but it is really because we are pulling up the roots. We really are getting at the heart of things. And when you root out the lies you have been telling yourself and the misbeliefs you have about yourself and about God and about the world and about others, and you clear that up, other things just start to clear up and it creates room for more of those things that you need.

And then you know yourself better, and you look around you and you can see. I hear often from women who have been through Level Three and graduated, and they are doing so many incredible things, holding retreats and putting schools together and serving in their communities and nonprofit organizations and helping the homeless. And it is not, so often when we do not have that self-acceptance and self-love and we do not know our gifts and talents and we have not worked to develop them and we are not principled in our thinking, it is so easy to still see the need maybe, but just shrink from it and be certain, I could never do that. But there is this new level, and that is why as we work on ourselves and we raise the quality of the relationship we have with God and ourselves, then it enhances the relationships in our home, and then there is more unity there, and then there are more people helping and more people encouraging.

Audrey: And I would guess you have had this experience, Lindsay, but I have been surprised on multiple occasions where my kids are almost pushing me out the door like, no, you can do this, offering their encouragement, and saying yes, we are excited for you, yes, this is awesome, yes, you can do this.

Lindsay: They love me and our relationships are better, so that is part of it. But I know that part of it is also that we are so intimately linked. They see themselves in their parents, right? Like we take a cue from our parents, and when our parents are more adventurous, when they are taking more risks, when they are more confident, when they are making a difference, it heightens our children's confidence too. Like, I am part of them. I come from them. If they could do that, maybe I could. Maybe that could be me. Maybe there is more to me than I thought. Maybe I could level myself up as well. That example is so priceless, and you just cannot put a value on it. It is a gift, and they want you to succeed because it means they are more likely to succeed too. Your success is their success too. And so it is a beautiful journey to bring them along on the projects that you feel called to and that you engage in, whether people are asking you or whether you are stepping out and offering yourself. They are both needed and beautiful, and it is such a gift that we give them that they see us doing these hard things and they see our example.

Lindsay: And yes, they are rooting for us. And they see the change that has happened in us. And then they have that hope that they can do those things for themselves. And that is one of the questions that comes up, how can I spend time doing this academy thing and not being with my children? Does it leave my family out? It feels like mission excludes motherhood. And it is true that it does take a little bit of time away from the family. If I have to read something, I have to step away. But when I come back to the family, I am better. And then that allows them to be better. And then like you said, we just bring them along and now we are all better together. But I had to lead out as the mom. I had to change me first before I could have that kind of influence in my family.

Personal Friendships and the MDM Community

Audrey: So let us, unless you have other stories that you want to tell, I would love to, before we finish up, hit on your personal friendships. One of the things that has been one of the biggest surprises to me, and you were there, helping all along the way, building out this curriculum, and I gathered up all the best stuff that had helped me, and of course I just hoped it would help women. One of the things that surprised me the most is the caliber of women that it has attracted. And that is not because all the best women sign up. I think it is just because they become the best women. But I would love to hear your personal experiences with your MDM community, your MDM friendships and the quality of those, what difference it has made for you in your personal life to be just part of this group of women who are on this journey together.

Lindsay: It is a lot of fun to have friends, to have a group of women that we have a common language with. First of all, we can talk about things like the drama cycle, like empowering questions, like telling yourself the truth. And we understand what we are talking about. So we can have those kinds of conversations. We also have in common that we have learned these things and we have studied these things and we are trying to get this kind of education. And so the conversations that we have are not just, how is the weather? It is meaningful, deep, transformational, even, conversations when we come together. And I get this perspective and this perspective, and then we come together, okay, what is the truth? And how are we going to live that? And so it is energizing, I think, to just rub shoulders with this caliber of women who are strong and confident and doing good things in their homes and doing good things in their communities. And their example inspires me. Just like our children are inspired by our example, these women inspire me. I want to be better and to do better. And so it is really, I think energizing is a good word for it.

Audrey: Yeah. And comforting.

Lindsay: Yes. And comforting. You are not alone, because there is a level of vulnerability required. We try to bring that into our workshops as well and to our community feed. And we do not, of course, everyone only shares as much as they want to share, and we have systems in place to make sure that nothing inappropriate happens or that we do not get far off track. But there is this level of vulnerability and

self-honesty that, because that is what we are doing personally and because that is what we are doing in the program, we bring to those workshops and discussions. And it is comforting to see that others struggle the same as we do. And it is encouraging as they pick themselves back up and try again. And then we really do offer each other ongoing encouragement. When we feel stuck in the content or stuck with ourselves, there are other women to empathize, but then also maybe pose a good question that will help us think about it differently. And that is sometimes one of the most helpful things we can do for each other.

Audrey: And I have told this story, I think maybe even recently on the podcast, but it is probably worth repeating. When we had the Mothers of Principal event and I went to one of the Airbnbs that some women had rented who had come into town, and I overheard, I was just sitting there, I overheard some women next to me talking. And one of them was complaining about something and the other woman said something back about her complaining, and then she turned to her friend who had not been in the academy, but had come to the event, and said, yeah, it is bittersweet because we all know better than to act like victims. And so in this space we cannot act like victims and just complain about stuff all the time. We have to try to say our piece and then move on and be creators. Like we all know we are supposed to be creators instead.

Lindsay: Yeah. It is a culture that is encouraging you to be your best. We empathize, we get it, we will say encouraging words, but then we will also hold you accountable. You cannot get away with faulty thinking anymore. But we will also coach and question and help you. We all have problems. None of our lives are perfect. We all have hard things that we are dealing with. Nobody gets away from that. But we can come together and ask questions, help to identify the principles, hold each other accountable, and just encourage each other to keep going, that it is worth it, and that we can do it.

Audrey: Yes. It is such a valuable community. And exactly like you said, to watch women who have gone through this process, and it is not like Audrey is not magical. She does not have superpowers. I am no different than you, really legitimately. We just have been through this process of changing the way that we think about God and ourselves and the world. We see the world through this lens of natural law, which brings us ongoing hope and optimism that we can find answers, that truth will make us free. And then we dig into material that helps us to think differently on an ongoing basis.

And to your point, what you were saying a minute ago, Lindsay, we have a schedule built out of thirty minutes a day for a reason, because that is what all of us can probably find. But it is also super important that you have that ongoing drip, and then you just ponder. And you just see it. And you just, it opens your eyes and then you look for it. And half of the battle, if not more, is just seeing it. Then you have some tools and some guidance to help you walk through it.

And having those women in front of us all the time, that is why I bring you and other women on the podcast. Amy was here and Katie was here. It works. It just works to learn to think this way. If I can do it, you can do it too.

Lindsay: That is exactly what I am saying. We can do it. You can do it too. It is work. We are not going to sugarcoat that. Anything worthwhile in life is work. That is what it is. And so we are here for the long haul. We take a long time, we do a slow drip, and we

get to know each other and we build actual friendships. And many of these women know each other in real life, they hang out in real life. I have had many women talk about, I found my people when I came here, or these are some of my closest friends now. Which I think for you and I both is also true.

Audrey: Yep. Absolutely.

Closing Words and Call to Action

Audrey: Alright, any last words of wisdom to anybody who is listening to this and wondering what their next step should be?

Lindsay: If you are feeling the call to come and be a part of this community, to go through the academy, to gain a better understanding of truth and how you can know it and use it in your life, then listen to it. I think part of the nature of truth is that it compels action. We cannot, once we know the truth, we cannot not act. And so if this is something that is resonating with you, it is something to take some time and to listen to and to pursue.

Audrey: That is a great way to put it. Thank you so much, Lindsay. You are, thank you. We are grateful for you every day. For those who decide to join us in the academy, you will get to know Lindsay, so that is a bonus. Come join us.

Audrey: And for those of you that want to come to the encore training, it is going to happen soon. The link is in the description. We would love to have you there. If some of these things are resonating with you and you are feeling like you want to know more and learn more and get involved, we would love to have you at the event in the fall. And if you sign up soon, that is better because Lindsay is mentoring that community. Come join us. We are sending out some awesome emails. There is a recorded workshop you can watch. You are going to learn all about the six types of victim, and you are going to be part of a community immediately that is nurturing you and helping you to prepare for this Mothers of Creation event in the fall.

We would love for you to come. We would love for you to bring your friends, your sister, your mother, your aunt, your cousin. Share in this experience together. Build community with them through this principled lens and learn how to step out of victim and be a creator. So thank you so much for joining us today. We are so glad to be here and serve you. Have a wonderful day. We will see you next time.