EP 135: Holiday Stress? Escaping the Trap of Feeling Shame

In this episode, Audrey unpacks the difference between healthy shame (guilt tied to real wrongdoing) and unhealthy shame (false beliefs about our worth) and explains how confusing the two leads to emotional pain—especially during the holidays. Using real-life examples, she shows how unhealthy shame damages relationships, triggers emotional overreactions, and keeps us stuck. Audrey teaches listeners to recognize the source of their feelings, take responsibility only for true guilt, release false shame, draw their worth from God, and use empowering questions to reframe difficult interactions. Through daily self-care, preemptive reflection, and intentional communication, we can transform holiday stress into opportunities for healing, confidence, and deeper, more loving relationships.

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Transcript (AI Generated)

Welcome back to the podcast. I'm Audrey Rindlisbacher. I'm the author of The Mission Driven Life and the founder of The Mission Driven Mom—and happy holidays. I'm so excited for you to join me. Listen to this fascinating quote. It says, “Peter Sheehan: that deep fear we all have of being wrong, of being belittled, and of feeling less than is what stops us from taking the very risks required to move us forward.”

That's what we're going to talk about for a few minutes today: what is going on with us when we're worried and dreading, maybe even a little bit, the holidays? Because we’re worried about these relationships where we might feel bad interacting with certain people. Last week we spent a little bit of time talking about what to do if we’re worried about the holidays, if we're dreading interacting with these people.

I gave you three tools. We talked about why you might be dreading it and three tools that you can use to better manage it. One really important one was taking time for yourself every morning. I gave you the recommendation of the Miracle Morning app so you could visualize and pray and do all of those things each morning to buoy yourself up.

And we talked about what to do in specific situations with certain types of worry, and then I gave you another tool: asking empowering questions. I also gave you an opt-in of a mini-training that you still need to go get because it's going to help you with this week's tools as well.

So by the end of this podcast, you are going to understand the two types of shame, and you are going to have a little toolset for knowing what to do when you get into that really uncomfortable situation that you don't want to be in with someone, and you're just not sure how to manage yourself because you're not feeling the way you want to feel.

So first, let's talk about these two types of shame. I'm going to give you the framework of a very simple scenario—you may have experienced it; I've experienced it—of what might happen to you as a mother in terms of a simple, everyday experience with shame. Then we're going to break it down.

This is what one woman explained: “One time I stopped to get gas and my credit card was declined. The guy gave me a really hard time. As I pulled out of the station, my three-year-old son started crying, and I just started screaming, ‘Shut up.’ I was so ashamed about my card. I went nuts. Then I was ashamed that I yelled at my son.”

Now, in a normal situation, or kind of an average explanation you might find online, somebody might say, “Well, you shouldn't feel ashamed like she did. You should never be ashamed. You need to affirm yourself. You need to tell yourself that you are incredible,” and all of that.

Well, it is the case that there are different kinds of shame, and not understanding that is going to make you either really struggle to overcome the shame or handle it in all the wrong ways. And so just understanding that there are two types, that they are both at play in this scenario, and that they happen to us all the time, is going to empower you to know what to do better.

Healthy shame is a voice from your true self. We could also say it’s a voice from God. If you want to go back and listen to the “Two Consciences” podcast I did a few months ago, that's a really nice companion to this one because that’s what I talked about there—how you have a divine conscience, and it's different from the social conscience. And there’s some dovetailing and layering between shame and the conscience, which is really, really important to keep in mind.

So healthy shame is coming from that divine place—the true sense of what is really right and wrong, the morality. It's something deep inside you that says, “You're better than this. I should not have done that. That was not the right thing to do.”

Here are some examples of ways we experience shame—but healthy shame:

• We overspend without talking to our spouse and break the budget we agreed upon.
• We consistently harbor bad feelings toward someone and think badly about them, maybe even say bad things about them.
• Maybe it's worse than that—maybe you have an addiction.
• Maybe you struggle with lying or fudging the truth.
• Maybe you have betrayed others in the past.

These are instances where you legitimately did something wrong, and you feel ashamed about it because you really did something wrong. You've betrayed your conscience. You've broken principles and natural laws. You've done something you know to be wrong. The point here is that you did something wrong. It is behavior-focused. Healthy shame is only about actions—things we actually did. This is super important to remember.

Unhealthy shame is a voice from the false self. This is the tempter. This is how we don’t tell ourselves the truth. This is a lie we are believing.

Louis Smeeds said this about unhealthy shame: “The pain from this shame is not a signal of something wrong in us that needs to be made right. Our shame is what is wrong with us. It is a false shame, or an unhealthy shame, because the feeling has no basis in reality.”

I'm going to say that again: the feeling has no basis in reality. It is unhealthy shame we do not deserve because we are not as bad as our feelings tell us we are.

It’s so important to remember: your feelings can lie to you, just like your thoughts can lie to you. Just like we all lie to ourselves sometimes—and other people, unintentionally or sometimes even with good intentions, lie to us. It is our goal, our mandate as mission-driven moms, to be truth seekers who want the truth wherever it is, whatever it is, and whatever source it’s coming from.

Unhealthy shame tells us that we are bad. It is person-focused. You didn't do anything legitimately against morality. You didn't even necessarily disobey your conscience. You've honestly tried your best and something bad happened—or something you don’t like—and you feel like, “I am wrong. There's something broken about me.”

Some examples of unhealthy shame might be:

• You overpromise without thinking or making a plan, and then you can't follow through because you simply have too many commitments.
• You constantly obsess about the things you “should” be doing and feel guilty for not doing them.
• You look at others’ accomplishments and believe that you should be like them.
• You were abused or neglected as a child, and now you struggle with trust or vulnerability.

Yet in both healthy and unhealthy shame, whatever the source, you feel yucky. You feel guilty. You feel awful. It feels like something is wrong.

And I think this is why it's so easy to conflate the two and just think, “Well, if I ever feel ashamed, then that's never me.” And this is something the world gets wrong. It tells you that anytime you feel ashamed at all, you should deflect it, tell other people they're wrong, play the victim, or ignore the changes your conscience is lovingly trying to help you make.

But when we recognize there are two different kinds of shame, then we can put them both into proper perspective.

When it’s unhealthy shame, then you are the shame. And because you can't stop being you, you feel wrong at the core. You feel helpless. You feel despair because you can't stop being you, and you don't know a way out. You feel trapped and broken.

That's why unhealthy shame is always bad. It's always the wrong perspective, and we need to reframe what we’re thinking and what we’re telling ourselves when we get caught in unhealthy shame.

This is where we have to be better discerners. This is where principles can really come to our aid. When we understand natural law properly and understand how to delineate a principle, it's so much easier to parse out the lies and the truths we’re telling ourselves—to identify the unhealthy and the healthy shame.

But I'm going to give you some tools you can use right now—some really valuable questions—and then we're going to use that same tool from last week: empowering questions.

What's really important to recognize—and I’ve already mentioned it—is knowing the difference between unhealthy and healthy shame. Healthy shame is more appropriately called guilt: “I did something bad, and I feel guilty.”

Shame, in the unhealthy sense, is: “I am bad.”

There are some people who are just intensely shame-based. It becomes their identity or worldview. And often those people do have enough trauma in their past that they just have to do more work. They can definitely see who they really are, but it’s more work.

Let's be clear: we all experience unhealthy shame. We all experience both types. We all conflate them. We all feel confused by them, and we all want to run away because whatever situation we’re in feels super embarrassing.

So let's go back to the beginning scenario. This mom is trying to get gas. Her credit card isn't working. The guy is “shaming” her—telling her something is wrong with her because her card won’t work. There's something wrong with him that he’s shaming her. We can't let other people's perspectives get us hung up.

Remember, she said, “I was so ashamed about my card. I went nuts.” This is important to recognize because if we have a relationship with someone that's already uncomfortable, or if we have scenarios in our family that are emotionally complicated—where for some reason we feel less than—then simple events trigger deep reactions.

For me, especially with my husband's family, there was a time when I felt embarrassed and ashamed because we didn't have as much money as many people in his family. They had nicer things, they gave their children more, and I experienced a lot of embarrassment and shame over that.

They were not doing anything wrong. They were just living their lives and having success. It had nothing to do with me. They liked me just fine. But I was creating complications in my relationships with them because of my unhealthy shame. And I was creating that unhealthy shame by comparing myself to them and telling myself I was less than—that something was wrong with me because I wasn’t giving my children the same things or having the same success. I decided we must not be as smart. Then I went all the way down the rabbit hole to my worth.

That is what lies at the heart of unhealthy shame: we have our worth tied up in something that has nothing to do with our worth. We’re no longer drawing our worth from God, and we’re no longer telling ourselves the truth. We're caught up in lies. We're not asking good empowering questions.

So we turn normal everyday situations—just like going to dinner with extended family—into our own torture chambers, beating ourselves up and making ourselves miserable simply because people are living their lives. Then maybe someone says something teasing or slightly judgmental, and suddenly I'm down in that awful place of “I'm broken. I can’t be fixed. Something is wrong with us. Why can’t we get the same results?”

So with the woman at the gas station: why was she ashamed about her credit card? Because her worth was wrapped up in it—because she believed something was wrong with her that her card wasn't working.

She could have said, “This is so frustrating that my card isn’t working, but this happens to everyone. I'm going to pull over and figure it out.” Or if she’s standing in front of the guy—even if he’s berating her—if her worth wasn’t wrapped up in her money or credit card, she might have said, “Sir, you’ve probably had a time in your life when your credit card didn’t work. I’m not sure what the problem is here, but let’s figure it out.”

Even if there truly wasn’t enough money in her account—embarrassing, sure—she could say, “Lots of people have been in this situation. I’m sorry I didn’t check beforehand. Let’s come up with a solution.”

Then, instead of staying in a problem-centered space, she would be in a solution-centered space—where she should be as a true creator, which is what we want to be as mission-driven moms. We deep-dive into this in the Academy because your worth should not be tied up in any of that stuff. That’s where unhealthy shame comes from.

But we can see these situations clearly. We can parse them out. We can see the unhealthy shame from the healthy shame. We can recognize when it’s guilt and when it’s shame.

Let me read you this quote about unhealthy shame from Brené Brown:

“If you roughly divide the men and women I've interviewed into two groups—those who feel a deep sense of love and belonging and those who struggle for it—there’s only one variable that separates the groups: those who feel lovable, who love, and who experience belonging simply believe they are worthy of love and belonging.”

Because this woman's worth was tied up in her money and her credit card and how she looked to other people, she wasn't drawing her worth from the proper places. She wasn't having a healthy perspective and telling herself the truth and asking empowering questions and being solution-focused.

Well, then she had this shame. Here's what I really want you to recognize and take away from this, because this, I think, is really at the heart of some of the reasons why we're dreading the holidays and some of the issues that we have around these complicated relationships with other people—just like me with my extended family and me creating all of this shame around just a normal family interaction.

Instead, I could have been proud of who I was and proud of the choices I was making and recognizing that I was a really good mom and that my kids didn't need stuff in order to feel loved. I could have been affirming myself and telling myself the truth and asking myself empowering questions when I went there, like, “How can I love them better? How can I find out more about their lives? How can I see what we have in common?” All those things that I could have been doing—the tools that I didn't have then that I have now, which I'm so grateful for.

It was the original unhealthy shame that helped instigate the healthy shame. She said she was also ashamed that she yelled at her son.

The healthy shame was that she felt guilty because she yelled at her child, and that's a legitimate thing that she actually did wrong. Her conscience was like, “You shouldn't yell at your kid.” Why is she yelling at her child? It's because she feels awful.

Now, we're always responsible for our choices, no matter how we feel. But if we already feel ashamed, we're more likely to act out in shaming ways. We're more likely to do things that cause us more shame because we do things we know to be wrong that we legitimately feel guilty about later.

So I hope that really sinks in. Think about that. If you allow yourself to engage in unhealthy shame, you are more likely to cause yourself guilt and more shame.

So what we have to do is we have to tackle who you have troubled relationships with. You've interacted with these people before. You know what stuff might come up. You know the comparisons that you might make. You know the unhealthy things you might be tempted to say. You know the kinds of things they might say to you or what might go down, so you can prepare beforehand.

I love the quote, “An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.” This is why you're going to do your Miracle Morning every day over the holidays, because you're going to keep yourself in a good place. You're going to take care of yourself first. You're going to meet your needs. You're going to envision what you want these holidays to look like and how you're going to show up. You're going to journal and be grateful and exercise for a few minutes and just do those things that are going to center you.

You're going to draw your worth from God, and you're going to remind yourself that there's unhealthy shame, and you are not going to let other people make you feel ashamed when you shouldn't, because you haven't done anything wrong. This is so, so, so important.

That clerk participated in this woman's sense of shame by the way he was treating her, but she had the power to stop him. She had the power to tell him that she refused to feel ashamed for something she didn't do wrong.

So this is why you're going to take care of yourself first. If you did not get that mini training, you're going to go grab it. It's in the description again this week. You're going to really practice those empowering questions, and you're going to let your brilliant mind think on those empowering questions. You're going to pray over them, you're going to ponder them, you can maybe ask other people them, and you're going to let your marvelous mind find new, creative solutions to old problems.

Because you're going to be solution-focused, right? And you're going to be the person who is not going to feel guilty for something that she didn't do wrong. But you're also going to be the person who is the first one to have the courage to own up to what you did do wrong, because both of those things nurture your self-image. Both of those things help you feel in control of yourself, in control of your life, and centered and worthy.

So the first thing that you're going to do when you have an interaction is prepare ahead of time. You're going to use those empowering questions. You're going to use that training to start jotting down where you might get caught up this Christmas—what might happen over the holidays that might be an issue for you. You're going to write your empowering questions, and you're going to carry them around with you.

You're going to do that prevention with Miracle Morning and with empowering questions to prepare you. Now we're going to talk for just a minute about what you're going to do in those situations that might arise in the moment.

You have an interaction—or you don't even have an interaction. Maybe this is all going on in your head. My husband and I can have so many conversations and give so many examples to you of ways that we've done this together and individually, with many, many people in our lives, of “horriblizing” them and putting ourselves on a moral pedestal or demeaning ourselves and just not seeing ourselves and others honestly. That's what we have to learn how to do.

So let's say that you just notice that you're feeling these bad feelings that you don't want to feel, and you're especially feeling them even just toward yourself. You find yourself demeaning yourself or feeling like you don't like yourself, or telling yourself things that you don't want to hear—things that you wouldn't tell somebody else that you really love. Or you have this bad interaction, and you're in this negative place.

The first thing that you're going to do is check in on your healthy shame. You're just going to ask about good old-fashioned guilt: “Is there something in this relationship that I am legitimately responsible for fixing? Have I potentially done something to hurt this person in the past?”

This is preemptive work you can do as well. You can anticipate the experiences that you're going to have with these people at the holidays. You can anticipate what's going to happen by actually trying to repair relationships before the event happens. That's also some of the ounce of prevention that you can do.

The point I want to make here is that what we tend to do at the holidays is make it all about the external stuff. It's all about the parties and the decorations and the gifts and the cookies and the caroling. And the traditions matter—do not get me wrong. You're creating beautiful memories that your children will cherish. But actually, the only reason you're doing all of that external stuff is to enrich the relationships, to build happy memories for yourself and your family, and to build bonds.

So I don't want you to tell yourself this holiday season that you don't have time to sit with yourself and negotiate relationships—that you're too busy and you'll “handle it after the holidays.” That is a lie.

If you do a little bit of preemptive work—if you will write down some empowering questions, if you'll just sit with yourself tonight when you go to bed and spend an extra half an hour before you fall asleep and do a little bit of preemptive work—the holidays will be a million times better. Even if Uncle Joe shows up and says the thing he always says, even if everybody else is exactly the same, because you are different, it will be different for you.

And when you show up different for people because you're different—because you've worked on you—then it always forces other people to respond differently. Maybe their initial reaction won't be exactly what you want or expect, but it will heal. You have the power to initiate the healing.

Sometimes you just are responsible for stuff. I was responsible for feeling jealous. That was something that I was doing that was 100% on me, and I owed myself and God—and probably them—an apology for building up a wall between us with my own negative feelings, with my own jealousy.

So I want to encourage you to evaluate beforehand and even in the moment. Leave the room for five minutes. Go sit in another room and just ask yourself—maybe even pray and talk to God about it. Maybe even bring in somebody that you trust—and really try to be honest: “Is there something in this relationship that I can take responsibility for that would actually help it move forward? Have I hurt this person in the past? Have I created walls? Have I been judgmental or comparing or negative or crabby or whatever, and do I genuinely need to fix this?”

Then write them a card or call them on the phone or give them a short visit. You can write it down beforehand so that you remember what you wanted to say, and it can be really simple. If it's not that big of a deal, I don't want you to blow it up into something that it doesn't need to be. But you can definitely initiate healing.

You can go to someone and say, “Look, our relationship has not been the best, and I'm the first one to admit that I have this part in that. I have not reached out to you as much as I could have. I have not been there for you in times when you needed help. I have been jealous of you, and I have—I'm sorry to say—talked badly about you sometimes when you weren't around. That's all on me, and I am very sorry. I want this holiday season to be better. We're going to spend time together, and I want it to be as beautiful as it can be. If you can find it in your heart to begin to forgive me, then let's start over. Let's see if this can be better.”

I'm not here trying to give you one more thing to do. I don't want you to listen to this and do that unhealthy shame thing again: “Oh, Audrey's giving me one more thing to do and I don't have time to do it. She's telling me to take time at the holidays and there's too much stuff going on.” I am giving you a gift, and the gift is the understanding of what's causing you pain and tools to begin to create healing and to make this holiday season better.

So if you can hear that, if you can accept that gift, if you can take it into your heart and recognize that in the relationships in your life that are not the way you want them to be, there might be something that you could genuinely apologize for—even if it's just a genuine misunderstanding—then you manage your unhealthy shame.

You use those empowering questions. You stop and do your gratitude. You take yourself out of the room and get yourself right again. You do not let other people shame you. You do not internalize that.

If someone says something to you like, “You shouldn't be this way,” or “You shouldn't be that way,” or “That was the wrong thing,” or they don't like your decorations, or that wasn't what they wanted for Christmas, or you are just wrong in some way that they don't like, then you're going to take a few minutes and ask some questions like, “Is this just me, or does this happen to other people?” Like with the credit card—does everybody sometimes not have money on their credit card? Probably a lot of us. Is that a normal human thing to happen? Yes. “I don't need to feel shame about that because that's a normal thing that happens to people.”

Then you can also ask yourself some other really good questions, like, “Why am I feeling ashamed for something I didn't do wrong? What is the truth about this situation, about this relationship, about me that I can focus on that's good? How can I see myself and this person more honestly?”

You can write those questions down. You can carry them around in your back pocket, and you can make this holiday season better. Even if it's just 1% better, that's better. And then it can be 1% better next year.

If you'll go get that mini training on how to stop worrying and start thriving and use those empowering questions and do the work ahead of time and do the work in the middle of these interactions—most of the time your presence isn't “do or die.” Most of the time at these Christmas gatherings you can step away for a minute. You can say, “Let's take a break. Let's pause gifts for a minute and come back after we've had a break,” or “You guys eat a piece of candy; I’ve got to go to the bathroom”—whatever you need to say to take a break and to renegotiate yourself, to reframe the situation for yourself, and tell yourself the truth.

So what are we going to do this holiday season? It's the week before Christmas. You've got a couple of weeks of interacting with people and attending parties. It's coming to a close, and now you're going to be with these people—maybe on Christmas Day or Christmas Eve or New Year's Eve, or whatever the case might be—or even just with yourself, and you want to be different. You want to show up differently.

So you're going to do the maintenance stuff and remember that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

And you're going to take care of yourself every day and ask empowering questions about how you can show up differently. When you start feeling ashamed, embarrassed, or negative, you're going to pull away and ask yourself, “Is this healthy or unhealthy shame?” Then you're going to take responsibility for what you've done.

If you yelled at somebody, if you were critical of them—whatever it might be—you’re just going to go apologize. Then you're going to use empowering questions to reframe the unhealthy shame and remind yourself that your worth is infinite, that you matter, that people love you, that you are lovable and loved, and that you just need to see everybody a little bit more honestly.

What you're practicing doing—these are just good principles that you're going to practice. Taking care of yourself every single day is a really important principle. Looking for whether it’s unhealthy or healthy shame is a really important principle. Taking responsibility for what you've done, with healthy shame, is a really important principle. And getting rid of the unhealthy shame is a really important principle as well.

A couple final thoughts. Remember that quote I gave you at the beginning? “That deep fear we all have of being wrong, of being belittled, of feeling less than is what stops us taking the very risks required to move us forward.” Admitting that we were jealous, saying we're sorry to people—those are the risks we have to take to move forward.

Taking full responsibility for the guilt for what is ours, then reframing all the unhealthy shame—that’s what we've got to do. And this is just such a beautiful thought to remember. This is Louis Smeeds:

“There is a nice irony in shame. Our feelings of inferiority are a sure sign of our superiority, and our feelings of worthlessness testify to our great worth.”

In other words, we could not feel less than if we were not truly superior and noble creatures. We could not feel unworthy if we did not have great worth. We are daughters of God who can end the unhealthy shame, take action where there's genuine guilt, and rise permanently above any unhealthy shame and begin to work toward our real potential.

And in the case of this holiday season, begin to have more of the loving, beautiful, connected, meaningful relationships that we long to have.

Go get that mini training. Use it all through the holidays. Come back and tell me how it went—what insights you had, how you reframed your unhealthy shame, how you took responsibility, and what was better this holiday season because of these really valuable principles.

And remember, next year we have some great things cooking for you. We will be back at the first of the year, and look for some really great stuff coming into your inbox over this Christmas holiday about the Mothers of Creation Celebration. It’s coming back. We haven't had this celebration for a few years. It’s back. Please join us this fall and look for those emails coming into your inbox about that.

Make sure to subscribe and leave a review. It helps others find us and know that quality content and true principles are taught here and that they can be blessed by those.

Have a very, very, very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

I will see you in 2026.